Transcript of "MOO—The Second Decade?"

A presentation for the Computers & Writing Online 2005 Conference

There appears to be some writing on the note ...

-- Start log: Wednesday, June 8, 2005 7:06:32 pm ProNoun time –

MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin
	Welcome to "MOO--The Second Decade?" a discussion about the current state of "MOO" in education and efforts to rejuvenate MOO by the enCore Consortium Presenter L. Lennie Irvin English Instructor, San Antonio College PhD student in Technical Communication and Rhetoric at Texas Tech Univ.

MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin
		Introductions Let's start with some introductions! Please share who you are, where your are from, and a bit about your interest/experience with MOOs. **************************************************** Here's mine: I am Lennie Irvin and I teach English at San Antonio College in San Antonio, Texas. I have used MOOs for about six years. I used enCore MOOs with both my composition and my literature classes. With my composition classes, I have them create an online portfolio, and for my literature classes we use enCore mostly for class discussion about the readings and paper topics. I am currently the President of the enCore Consortium.
MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin
	Overview of Presentation Topics 1. Introductions 2. MOOs--where we have been; where we are 3. enCore's place and history 4. A description of the enCore Consortium and its mission 5. Goals and Projects of the Consortium 6. enCore version 5 description 7. Field trip to visit and explore the beta version of enCore version 5

Lennie says, "The ghost of Erin Karper lives in ProNoun MOO!"
Bill Rowland has connected.
Samantha smiles
Michael tips his hat
Claire Lauer smiles.
Claire Lauer [to Kevin Moberly]: shoot!
Kevin Jepson waves
Lennie says, "I am recording our discussion so we will have a transcript. When we do introduction (coming next) be sure to put your email address if you want a copy."
Lennie displays slide #3 on Web:
<http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/encore/CW2005/pg3.htm>.

MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin

Introductions Let's start with some introductions! Please share who you are, where your are from, and a bit about your interest/experience with MOOs. **************************************************** Here's mine: I am Lennie Irvin and I teach English at San Antonio College in San Antonio, Texas. I have used MOOs for about six years. I used enCore MOOs with both my composition and my literature classes. With my composition classes, I have them create an online portfolio, and for my literature classes we use enCore mostly for class discussion about the readings and paper topics. I am currently the President of the enCore Consortium.

Lennie says, "And I'll include these slide in the transcript too. "
Clancy Ratliff_Guest has connected.
Lennie hopes everyone can see the slide in the viewing window. Please let me know if you can't.
Samantha is Samantha Blackmon. She teaches English at Purdue. She has used MOOs for far longer than she would like to admit.
Kevin Moberly says, "the slides are brilliant"
Samantha sees the slide
Samantha says, "I have used MOOs in composition and literature classes for close to 10 years."
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I'm Clancy Ratliff, and I'm a graduate student at the University of Minnesota"
Lennie [to Kevin]: Yes. "Throwing URLs" is a great strenght of enCore.
Lennie [to Samantha]: Wow! You are a real veteran.
Michael says, "I am Michael, i am a zope developer (zope is a web application server written in python), living in Austria (Europe), i am interested in integrating MOO with Zope (email: michael@d2m.at)"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Oh! and I have zero experience with MOOs."
Kevin Moberly is Kevin Moberly, who just graduated with his Ph.D. from the University of Louisiana at Lafayatte. He is co-administrator of Acadiana Moo with Kieth Dorwick, and is developing a visual MOO BrightMoo. Best e-mail address until moving to my next job is kevinmoberly@hotmail.com
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I'm here to learn."
Claire Lauer says, "I'm Claire Lauer at the University of Arizona. I started using OldpuebloMOO in 1999 just after it was developed at our campus by Roxanne Mountford. I'm currently not teaching, but am interested in making the MOO more "competative" with the other technologies currently offered at ours and other campuses. There's so much MOOs can offer, but they are faling prey to more "practical" modules that do more"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest smiles at everyone
Lennie [to Clancy]: We'll be easy on you...
Lennie nods with agreement at Claire's description
Lennie [to Clancy]: You got the emote thing down ok.
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Thanks. If I see [to Clancy] in the statement, can others still see it?"
Lennie [to Michael]: I know some about Zope and seem to fit it in with something like Drupal. Is that a correct assessment?
Samantha (asleep) have disconnected.
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Oh, I see, got it."
Olin Bjork says, "I am Olin Bjork and I am a Ph.D. student at the University of Texas at Austin. I am currently working as a developer for the Computer Writing and Research Lab of the Division of Rhetoric and Composition. We have an enCore 4.0.1 MOO, and we are very interested in the consortium and version 5."
Samantha have connected.
Lennie says, "type to personname then text"
Michael [to Lennie]: well, Plone (based on zope and CMF) could be complared to Drupal
Lennie waves hey to Olin. Glad you could make it.
Kevin Moberly [to personname]: then text
Kevin Moberly says, "sorry could not help it"
Samantha got bounced
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "to Lennie Trying it now"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "D'oh!"
Kevin Jepson says, "My name is Kevin Jepson and I run a private experimental MOO call Seafarer, population 5 :). It is an Encore 4 Moo.""
Lennie bows to Kevin
Kevin Jepson nods in return.
Lennie says, "I wish we could reset guest names, but it doesn't seem to work in this site."
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Kevin] Thanks"
Olin Bjork says, "yeah I have been trying to figure out how to reset mine"
Claire Lauer [to Lennie]: quick or maybe not so quick Q...
Lennie [to Olin]: What is the name of the MOO at UT-Austin again. How much are you all using it?
Claire Lauer [to Lennie]: It's my understanding that we decided not to migrate from 3.1 because we had done quite a bit of our own programming and that would have been very difficult to migrate. Is V5 any different?
Olin Bjork says, "to Lennie Mappa Mundi, and not a whole lot because we are having stability and accessibility problems"
Lennie nods
Michael annot see Slide#3
Lennie [to Claire]: Yes v5 is different. We'll get a tour tonight.
Claire Lauer cheers loudly.
Samantha also cheers for the upcoming tour
Kevin Moberly cheers
Lennie [to firstguest]: Can you see the slide now? Are you connected via telnet?
Lennie displays slide #4 on Web:
<http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/encore/CW2005/pg4.htm>.

MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin

MOOs--Where We've Been; Where We Are MOO, or Multi-User Object Oriented Domains, were one of the first real time synchronous tools that connected "online" users within composition classrooms or virtual communities in the early 1990s before the Internet. But the text-based origins of MOO have not weathered well the growth of the Internet and the blog-era. Other online tools like blogs, CMS platforms like Drupal, and course platforms like WebCT or Blackboard have dominated the online teaching space for writing teachers in recent years. Some question has been raised whether (as Tari Fanderclai stated) "MOO is dead." Last year saw a number of MOO decline landmarks—the shift of the Computers & Writing Online synchronous discussions to another platform than a MOO and the death of Connections MOO. Can MOO evolve to fit a modern Internet environment? Is MOO still relevant for the field of Composition and Rhetoric and why? Want to see the decline in Educational MOOs yourself? --visit Rachel's Super MOO ListEducational MOOs last updated April 2002 --visit Portfolio of enCore MOOs, last updated Jan. 2004 See how many of these MOOs are not gone...

Michael gets an update now
Lennie says, "This slide is meant as a discussion starter about where MOO had been in the last two to four years."
Bill Rowland says, "Is the slide MOO-the second decade?"
Claire Lauer mourned the death of connections, as it was one of the examples she would use as a moo that appealed to new users well
Kevin Moberly says, "People have been saying that MUDs are going out of style for years, but as far as I can tell they are very much around"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "The one I see is "MOOs -- Where We've Been; Where We Are""
Lennie [to Diskguest]: Yes. We are on slide 4 about "MOOs where we've been...
Samantha misses Connections deeply
Kevin Moberly does too
Lennie says, "Connections had a long and loyal following. Kevin at Acadiana has kept some of the group going he says."
Lennie . o O ( Kevin is wocket guest )
Kevin Moberly says, "We have a lot of the classes that connections hosted"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "So is the community the most important part of ConnectionsMOO?"
Kevin Moberly says, "which was a bittersweet gain for us"
Samantha says, "I admit that I pretty much dropped out of the community after Connections closed"
Claire Lauer says, "MOOs should certainly be able to evolve, but aside from features that need upgrading, what I will e presenting on at CW this year is that MOOs have a terrible perception problem, that is, how they are percieved by potential users"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Or did people create a lot of decorated rooms, etc.?"
Kevin Moberly [to claire]: (thumbtack guest) what are the perception problems?
Lennie says, "It seemed like in the late 90s (97-99) MOOs were pretty widespread. In the last two years they have been dieing like the dinosaurs."
Samantha [to Clancy]: "it was both. there was a great community and lots of rooms
Claire Lauer says, "and I think not appealing to potential users is what's causing its death. Die-hard MOO lovers will always hang on, it's getting new users to try it out that isn't happening. Not at my campus anyway"
Lennie [to Clancy]: Oh the community is a BIG part of it.
Kevin Moberly says, "also the tuesday night cafe in connections was a good place to meet and discuss issues"
Lennie [to Claire]: (Thumbtack) I totally agree with you that it is a usability thing.
Claire Lauer says, "To start at the very beginning of the perception problem, I'd have to point to the acronym itself..."
Samantha [to kevin]: "absolutely. there were weekly discussions on issues
Samantha says, "discussions that have pretty much otherwise died."
Kevin Moberly says, "even I don't like the acronym and I'm a pretty dedicated user..that's an interesting point"
Lennie wishes he had done more Tuesday night cafes
Bill Rowland says, "Excuse me, is there a way to change the text size...I'm looking at an 8 point or so?"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Claire] Interesting. It seems people are turned off for a variety of reasons...but a lot of people don't like the word "blog" either. :-) This gets at Lennie's first question on the slide."
Samantha weeps at the loss of TNC
Lennie says, "Yes MOO is a problem. Cynthia Haynes and I are pretty set in not using it anymore as much as possible as enCore moves forward."
Claire Lauer says, "I'm filled with dread explaining the acronym on two levels: first the total weirdness and goofiness of MOO, then the actual words behind it are as frightening as it gets. It's a double-punch against itself"
Kevin Moberly says, "well its an acronym within an acronym"
Lennie [to Diskguest]: I'm squinting too...
Kevin Jepson says, "I think one of the perception problems is text = chat which is considered to be boring or dangerous."
Lennie says, "My margin is tiny too."
Claire Lauer says, "It's smart to use EnCore instead of MOO"
Kevin Moberly says, "also the command line is frighteneing"
Samantha is strangely attached to MOO
Lennie [to Kevin]: You are right to point out that real time synchrounous chatting doesn't seem to be used for teaching as much.
Kevin Moberly says, "in this age of MMORPGs which route alot of the interaction through mouse clicks"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I think one thing people like me are confused about is: How are MOOs different from any other synchronous chat, like IM, or chat rooms?"
Samantha has to admit to prefering the text based MOO over enCore. It's the old school geek in me
Bill Rowland says, "EnCore is the best thing that has happened to MOO since Pavel."
Lennie says, "When chats were new it seemed every one wanted to take there students into chat to see what would happen."
Kevin Jepson thinks text is better than graphics.
Claire Lauer says, "we don't have to worry about you, Samantha, but what about all the other newbies that look alamed when they are introduced to it :)"
Lennie wonders who Disk Guest is
Kevin Moberly woders if text is the same thing as graphics
Olin Bjork says, "In some ways, iChat seems like a better program for synchronous communication"
Samantha says, "This is true. People are frightened by it at first, but I have seen some of the most reluctant folks take to the TB MOO like you wouldn't believe"
Lennie [to Olin]: I've used iChat and really miss the freedom of expression I can do in a MOO
Claire Lauer says, "we've got to "sell" the MOO as so much more than chat. I think it would behoove us to focus on the spatiality of the MOO as a unique element"
Kevin Moberly says, "what I stress when I teach with moo is the constructed aspect"
Lennie passes around a bowl of popcorn
Claire Lauer says, "in addition to other features such as slide, multimedia sharing, etc."
Kevin Jepson grabs a handful of popcorn.
Kevin Moberly says, "it is a simulation, of which the chat (simulated conversation) is just one aspect"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I mean, pedagogically, what's the advantage of MOOs? Yes, yes, Thumbtack is getting to my questions. What is the "so much more"?"
Lennie nods to Kevin about constructed aspect
Susan has connected.
Claire Lauer nods at Kevin Moberly
Kevin Moberly [to Clancy Ratliff_Guest]: guest the fact that users can alter the space of the moo by adding to its topography or creating objects
Lennie [to Clancy]: First MOO is a great synchronous space and you can display web pages at the same time like we are now.
Kevin Moberly can't type
Samantha says, "For me it was the spatial construction of the TB MOO that drew me in. I always felt far too limited in EnCore."
Samantha says, "Don't get me wrong. I do like EnCore"
Lennie [to Clancey]: As some others are mentioning, it is a virtual "environment"--it has a spacial feel to it.
Samantha says, "Just not as much."
Bill Rowland says, "My name is Bill Rowland and I go back to the days of VOU but was a way for years but looked at the EnCore page from time to time...I now have a 4.0.1 version running but not yet a community."
Claire Lauer says, "I do a lot with identity exploration on the MOO, and having students construct themselves in spaces on the MOO. It's worked so well over the years that that's what my diss is all about"
Lennie [to Claire]: Cool. That sounds interesting.
Claire Lauer says, "also, the MOO's a homier place to be. It really is a PLACE, and not just an empty hole or blank screen like chat"
Kevin Jepson says, "The spatial nature and richness of a text description works to enhance the feeling of being somewhere as opposed to just watching somewhere. That is why a text based spatial system, while looking somwhow primitive, is still better than even high end graphics, IMHO."
Lennie [to Clancy]: I also have my fresh comp student create an online portfolio using the moo.
Samantha wonders who Highlighter is.
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Lennie] I'm having trouble imagining what a MOO online portfolio would look like."
Lennie [to Kevin]: HIghlighter You may be right. That may be one of the weaknesses of attempting to take moo into the web'
Claire Lauer says, "I have a list of features I'd love to see EnCore adopt, so maybe afterward I can get an idea of how dificult some of this stuff would be to program, if it's not already a part of v. 5"
Kevin Moberly [to Claire Lauer]: I also think that its less of a consumerist space than chat
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Highlighter] Yeah, the rich descriptions would seem to allow people to be creative, which is nice."
Lennie [to Clancy]: How about we set a date some time and I could give you a tour of some my students have made.
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Claire] I saw you do a presentation at CCCC 2002 (actually I was on your panel), and IIRC, your students were getting pretty creative with their descriptions"
Lennie says, "I think that MOOs viability for the future has got to come down to usability. "
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Lennie] sure!"
Samantha [to Lennie]: "Tha tis regrettably true
Claire Lauer [to Clancy Ratliff_Guest]: yep. It's really been an amazing project and I never even anticipated how interesting and creative their projects could be.
Kevin Moberly [to Kevin Jepson]: well its a different way of describing onesself. The users on MMORPGs do a good job with their descriptions despite the limitations that the highend, but homgenous graphics impose on them
Lennie says, "If the functional literacy required to use the technology for pedagogical purposes is too high, then it doesn't work. You spend too much time teaching how to MOO rather than teaching writing (for example)."
Samantha says, "There has been discussion as of late about game studies and code. Thinking about the rhetoric of the code."
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "And what (I think) Kevin said about selling MOOs to new users"
Claire Lauer says "hi again" to Clancy Ratliff
Samantha says, "I think that this is really important to do with MOO as well."
Bill Rowland says, "Having participated in a very intense community in MOO before the web interface I must say that it always seems flat until you start walking around during your day with MOO as part of your world in your head."
Pencil_Guest has connected.
Samantha says, "Soemthing that people are better able to understand in text based MOO."
Susan waves and identifies herself as Susan
Lennie [to Bill]: I like the idea of walking around with MOO in your head. It is true
Kevin Moberly says, "I wonder about the ideology of usability"
Lennie waves to Susan and Pencil guest
Pencil_Guest waves back
Claire Lauer says, "I've taught in both text and web-based and I think the usability of web-based trumps text-based without much loss in magic"
Susan says, "I have often thought it would be greate to design all of my course materials for composition in the MOO-- like a SyllaMOO rather than what was refered to as a syllaweb a few years ago."
Bill Rowland says, "The software then becomes transparent."
Lennie says, "That would be nice. Transparency is the goal."
Lennie [to Susan]: I like the idea of a SyllaMOO too.
Samantha finds transparency dangerous
Kevin Moberly says, "but transparency is also problematic, after all, if you are trying to teach your strudents to realize how technology constructs them"
Samantha [to Kevin Moberly]: "Bingo!
Lennie says, "I am intending to share information about the enCore Consortium and where it is going for enCore, but I don't want to break this conversation up if you all are still going."
Claire Lauer says, "but just as important is how language constructs them, and that doesn't get lost with transparency. In fact, it may be accentuated by it"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Lennie] Let's hear it!"
Lennie wants to remind late arrivals that the recorder is on...
Lennie says, "OK"
Lennie displays slide #5 on Web:
<http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/encore/CW2005/pg5.htm>.

MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin

enCore's place and history The enCore MOO Project began in 1997 as an open source development project to promote MOOs in education, in particular web-moos like the enCore MOO Core and Xpress Graphical Interface created by Jan Holmevik. (see enCore Manifesto) Jan Holmevik was the chief programmer until Spring 2004. Release history --enCore 1.0 April, 1998 --enCore 2.0 June, 1999 --enCore 3.0 April, 2001 --enCore 4.0 Jan, 2004 By January 2004, enCore was the most used web-interface MOO (see Portfolio of enCore MOOs). When Jan Holmevik completed his dissertation in Spring 2004, he withdrew from managing the enCore MOO Project, and handed the chief programming duties over to Daniel Jung who had worked with him at the University of Bergen, Norway. With the withdrawal of Jan from enCore, and the other factors leading to the decline in MOOs, a group of enCore users came together to form a "consortium" to support the enCore MOO Project and the continued development of enCore.

Kevin Moberly [to Claire Lauer]: guest yes, but is technology itself an application of language?
Lennie says, "I have just a bit about enCore's history."
Lennie says, "enCore has experienced a decline in users also in the last four years with a lot of MOO closing shop."
Samantha says, "or is language just another technology"
Claire Lauer cheers the consortium and regrets that she hasn't pursued becoming a part of it
Clancy Ratliff_Guest cheers because enCore is open source
Lennie says, "There is still the chance to sign up... just wait."
Kevin Moberly [to samanthat]: I'm afraid of reversing it like that because then technology becomes somethign that is natural or intuitive, versus somethign that is always already constructed
Claire Lauer smiles.
Samantha pokes Clancy and shushes her
Samantha smiles
Clancy Ratliff_Guest laughs
Lennie says, "Jan Holmevik and Cynthia Haynes were the driving force behind enCore."
Lennie says, "There seemed to be a big void when Jan decided he wanted to move on from enCore."
Lennie displays slide #6 on Web:
<http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/encore/CW2005/pg6.htm>.

MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin

A Description of the enCore Consortium and its Mission At the CCCCs in San Antonio in March 2004, Dene Grigar and I met and discussed the need for some "coming together" of enCore users to bolster the development (and survival) of enCore. In September of 2004, a symposium was held announcing the formation of the enCore Consortium. In December of 2004, this Consortium formed itself as a unincorporated non-profit. The Consortium is an outgrowth from and support to the ongoing enCore Open Source MOO Project. The Mission Statement: The enCore Consortium seeks to coordinate and promote the open source development and distribution of the enCore Program. The Consortium currently has 51 members (I encourage you to join up if you are interested-- http://encore-consortium.org). The next two slides will show 1) The Consortium web site 2) The list of current members Steering Committee Members: Lennie Irvin, President Dr. Barbara McManus, Treasurer (College of New Rochelle) Dr. Cynthia Haynes, (University of Texas at Dallas) Dr. Jeffrey Schneider (Vassar College) Rhonna Robbins-Sponaas (Norway) Daniel Jung (University of Bergen, Norway) (Secretary spot currently unfilled)

Lennie says, "The Consortium is really an attempt to bring users together to help promote enCore's development."
Lennie says, "I'll show the Consortium site"
Lennie displays slide #7 on Web:
<http://www.encore-consortium.org/>.
Lennie says, "The main goal is to help enCore improve its usability and expand its features."
----------------------------------Lennie-----------------------------------
Another goal of this Consortium is to improve the enCore program as an online educational learning environment. The Consortium will seek to make enCore equivalent in ease of use and breadth of function with other online educational tools such as Moodle, Blackboard, or WebCT, and to Learning Management software like Classfronter. These enhancements will be made while preserving the unique advantages of MOO contained within the enCore Program.
---------------------------------finished----------------------------------
Clancy Ratliff_Guest nods and agrees that this works very smoothly indeed
Olin Bjork leaves for Showcase Gallery
Olin Bjork arrives from Showcase Gallery
Lennie says, "Do you all have any questions about the consortium?"
Susan says, "encore features I'd be thrilled to see include pronoun substition like the JHCore MOOs have, as well as more menu/option/wizard support for adding code to objects. My sister writes fiction and has thought about trying to write her novel as a MOO space, but she is impatient with learning the code. I imagine the same would apply in the classroom"
Lennie is interested in the menu option for adding code to objects.
Kevin Moberly [to Susan]: ha that was my plan for a dissertation for a long time!
Susan grins
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Chalk] I'm interested in the pronoun substitution too. I've heard people engage in some fun gender play that way."
Samantha [to Susan]: My experience has been that students actually like learning to do the code after they get past the initial trepidation
Lennie says, "A MOO Novel."
Samantha . o O ( MOO: The Novel )
Bill Rowland says, "I could write a book!"
Lennie [to Samantha]: I think that works well in a text moo when all you have is the text commands, but in a web-moo they don't take to the text commands as well.
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Samantha] So those O's are supposed to be like a thought cloud, like in comics?"
Samantha [to Clancy Ratliff_Guest]: "Bingo!
Samantha . o O ( Clancey is mighty bright )
Lennie . o O ( thought clouds flutter in my head )
Kevin Moberly says, "by adding code via menu options do you mean the mcp editing capacity that clients like tk-MOO offer?"
Lennie says, "Here are the current members of the consortium"
Lennie displays slide #8 on Web:
<http://www.encore-consortium.org/members/members.php>.
Susan says, "a lot probably depends on the particulr students. Where I am going in the fall, most of the students are in engineering or technical related fields, and will probably take much better to working with code."
Samantha says, "Pushing web pages has always bugged me."
Kevin Jepson says, "I'm #36 :)"
Lennie says, "It is an impressive group with people from all over the place--Norway, Italy, Brazil, Australia, Taiwan, Canada"
Kevin Moberly agrees with samantha.
Lennie [to Kevin]: What time is it where you are?
Bill Rowland says, "Has anyone here any recollection of Virtual Online University?"
Kevin Jepson says, "6:44pm"
Lennie [to Susan]: Doesn't ring a bell.
Lennie [to Kevin]: For some reason I thought you were in Norway...
Samantha shales her head
Michael says, "02:44 am here"
Samantha . o O ( shakes even )
Lennie [to Firstguest]: Who are you? You must be in Europe
Samantha . o O ( shaling one's head could be painful )
Michael says, "yes, Austria"
Lennie nods
Claire Lauer [to Lennie]: whoo hoo! I'm now a member!
Lennie cheers Claire
Samantha [to Michael]: "Wow, that is dedication
Lennie says, "#52"
Samantha [to Michael]: you should get a prize for joining us
Michael smiles
Lennie says, "I think there are a lot of people still using enCore, but I think in many places the use is tenuous (like in OldPueblo perhaps)"
Lennie says, "Hopefully, we can create a community that comes together to support its individual use of enCore"
Lennie displays slide #9 on Web:
<http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/encore/CW2005/pg7.htm>.

MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin

Current Development Projects for the enCore Consortium Our chief goal currently is to support the release of the new enCore version 5 being programmed chiefly by Daniel Jung. The tentative release date for this new version is August 2005; however, this release date is very tentative. A usability test of the enCore beta v5 conducted in May 2005 at Texas Tech identified major problems in usability stemming from the often confusing overlap of three mental models of users--the MOO model, the web-interface model, and the windows model. Since the goal of enCore is increased usability, it may take longer to release this new version and take care of these usability issues than anticipated List of Development Projects -- Documentation Project --enCore Symposium Aug 12-14 2005 in Dallas --Interactivity Project --Grant Writer's Project --Graphics Library Project I will show the page describing these projects in more detail, and you can ask any questions as you think of them.

Lennie says, "Our main goal right now is to support the development of enCore v5"
Samantha nods
Lennie says, "We just did a usability test on enCore and I think it identified some important things that need to be changed."
Bill Rowland failed to note if his question posted correctly...
Claire Lauer [to Lennie]: oldpueblo hasn't upgraded because there hasn't been a demand for it :(
Claire Lauer [to Lennie]: and there were some programming issues...
Lennie [to Susan]: What question.
Lennie nods to Claire
Susan is very excited about the idea of people actively working to build up and refine the interface
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Lennie] The usability issues the Texas Tech testers brought up are interesting. The windows model?"
Kevin Jepson says, "Is there a report on the useability testing? I'd be interested in the results."
Bill Rowland says, "Ah, I see you have me confused with Susan, I am Bill."
Susan is Susan, Disk-Guest is someone else
Lennie [to Clancy]: That was Locke Carter's insight--that the moo mental model was often in conflict with the web model and windows model.
Samantha [to Lennie]: Does v5 work well with Mozilla?
Susan says, "er, what Bill said ;)"
Michael says, "this slide is very interesting indeed"
Lennie [to Kevin]: The report is not "officially" out yet. But it will be soon.
Lennie [to Samantha]: Yes it works with Mozilla fine
Samantha woohoos
Kevin Moberly says, "I haven't seen version 5 yet, but it seems like this version is based on an older incarnation of java"
Kevin Moberly says, "and the java display components"
Samantha nods at Kevin
Susan says, "is the consortium more interested in people who have the technical ability to actually create the changes to the interface, or are people who can just try thing out and offer ideas good too?"
Kevin Jepson says, "The conflict between those models is very interesting, it describes a problem I've been having trying to figure out a good use for the web parts of Encore."
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I'm using it in Firefox and it's working fine"
Lennie says, "For instance the idea of creating an object and having it be on your person really throws people off and then trying to get them to drop the object. Oh my. This is using the point and click commands not the text commands."
Lennie says, "Here is a detailed description of the current development projects"
Samantha [to Clancy Ratliff_Guest]: in OSX or Windows?
Lennie displays slide #10 on Web:
<http://www.encore-consortium.org/projects.htm>.
Lennie says, "If you are interested in helping out with any of these projects, let me know."
Olin Bjork [to Lennie]: I like the Pedagogy Wiki idea
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Samantha] in OSX (10.4), aka Tiger."
Lennie says, "For instance, the interactivity project, I think, is hoping to make the menu inclusion of code on objects easier."
Mayzie_Guest has connected.
Lennie [to Olin]: Wiki wiki. Yes.
Claire Lauer says, "nice list"
Samantha [to red,]: I was in Windows and it didn't work well for me
Lennie says, "Most of these projects have not really gotten off the ground."
Kevin Moberly says, "I'm developing a java client for Acadiana now that mimics the functions of tk-moo that I would be willing to share the source code with"
You hear a quiet popping sound; Mayzie_Guest has disconnected.
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "[to Staple] I was thinking the same thing. It seems wikis could have a similar spatiality to MOOs"
Lennie says, "Any last questions about the consortium before we go visit the new beta v5 site"
Kevin Moberly says, "it supports mcp moo editing windows and a macmoose browser"
Olin Bjork says, "How many of these depend on the beta being released?"
Lennie says, "When I post the next slide, please wait to get a user name to use from me before zipping off to the v5 site."
Lennie displays slide #11 on Web:
<http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/encore/CW2005/pg8.htm>.

*********************************************************
Inserted chat excerpt from new beta v5 enCore site

(the remainder of the ProNounMOO transcript is below)

MOO--The Second Decade? C&W Online 2005, Lennie Irvin
	Some New Features of enCore v5 Single window login Mouse resizeable window and frames HTML Chat Upgraded slide projector Upgraded recorder New WHO browser/ New Teacher Level User New Feature called "Groups" to manage users New Threaded Mail Forums The My Stuff window has been revised (These only list the highlights at this point.)

HTML chat features:

-write things without " or say
-write old commands preceeded with / unless they already
have an @ (like @go)
/look me
/drop x
@go home
/to Locke
/whisper text to character
/think
- write smileys like :) or :(
- for colored or formatted text, precede text with /red or /blue or /bold or /italic

The Parlour 09.06.05 03:23

03:23:14

>> Lennie turns on the recorder. A little red light begins flashing, indicating that everything said publicly in this room will be taped. <<

***
Note: The recorder was not turned on right away, so we missed some of the first discussion and experimentation about the new HTML chat. LI

***

03:23:22

Kevin_Moberly is on record

03:23:24

Teacher_2: « got it »

03:23:29

Lennie: « You can start the recorder with a mouse click. »

03:23:39

Daniel [à Teacher_5]: Oh, I see... REFRESH the main browser window!

03:23:42

Soudain, Teacher_5 s'en va.

03:23:48

Soudain, Teacher_7 s'en va.

03:23:49

Teacher_7 is here.

03:23:50

Builder_9: « the languages are HUGE too. We'll really be able to use that at the U of A »

03:23:58

Lennie: « If you refresh the frame with all our pictures in it you'll see that the recorder icon shows it is on. »

03:24:10

Teacher_5 is here.

03:24:33

Builder_9: « is it rude if I say that the tape look like it keeps getting shot in the head? »

03:24:39

Teacher_7 has learned to never do *that* to a java-applet

03:24:44

Lennie pastes a text:

-------------------------- Lennie --------------------------
"New Teacher User Group
"
"v5 has a new class of Teacher level users
"Teacher can create student accounts, manage quota levels, and change passwords.
"
"These students can be placed in "groups" that establish common settings for all students placed in that group.
--students will have a "home" set by the teacher
--a room will be created for the student already connected to a designated room upon player creation.
"
"There is more. I encourage you to try it out if you are logged in as a Teacher.
"Click on the Administrator button.
"Create accounts.
"Follow the steps for creating a student.
------------------------- /Lennie --------------------------

03:25:07

Builder_9: « i love the teachers can create accounts! »

03:25:07

Teacher_7: « works now for me too »

03:25:11

Lennie: « I like the shot in the head recorder »

03:25:25

Daniel . o O ( This will be completely changed in a few hours... )

03:25:43

Lennie: « The creation of a new Teacher class of users should make it easier for teachers to manage their students »

03:25:54

Samantha: « true »

03:25:59

Daniel . o O ( the player creation routine... )

03:26:02

Builder_9 agrees with lennie and cheers the new class

03:26:19

Lennie notes Pronoun was the inspiration for a Teacher level of user

03:26:38

Lennie: « Another BIG addition for v5 is Groups. »

03:27:00

Lennie: « It is a bit hard to explain, but you can create a "Group" for your students. »

03:27:28

Teacher_9: « l #5725 »

03:27:33

Kevin_Moberly: « interesting »

03:27:38

Lennie: « Then this Group can share many settings like for instance access to a common object or a Mail list »

03:27:50

Builder_9: « cool »

03:27:59

Lennie: « My slide #3 had Daniels longer description of their features. »

Groups: a description from Daniel Jung
(this slide inserted here)
Groups can be created and populated both before and after its members
are created.

Populating of groups is done in the Members section in the Object
Editor, and is, unlike in v4, not composed of numbers, but player names
in a predefined dropdown select. They form a table, where they can be
unchecked to remove them form the group again. (BTW: This dropdown
design [instead of numbers in a box] is much more intuitive and safe,
and will be a consistent element throughout the MOO, I have implemented
it in Mail, Co-Owner, Group Members, Forum Members, Bookmarks, Paging
and a few other spots.

Groups are always stored as groups. I.e., when I create a group with a
bunch of students and grant the GROUP
* read access to one forum,
* write access to another,
* co-ownership of a room
* read access to a document

and then, two months later, I got a new student who is allowed into
that group, I simply put him into the GROUP. He will then automatically be
reader of the first forum, writer on the second, co-owner of the room,
and may read the document - simply by being member of the group.

Another student is dropping out half ways. I simply remove him from the
group (not delete the character), and he won't have the privileges as
before.

I can send a mail to this group - and every member will get it. This
works for MOOmail and for internet email.

I can group-page them ("Hey folks, the 30 minutes are over, we will
gather in the main room in 2 minutes")

I can set a bookmark for that group alone. (group => Object
Editor/Pencil => Bookmarks). The bookmark will appear (in the
Navigator,
an own section of the Bookmarks) for all members of this group as long
as they are members. The number of unread (or changed) bookmarks will
appear in the welcome field in HTML chat. For "new/viewed/changed",
please refer to a recent mail I sent you about bookmarks.

One can be member of many groups. For the bookmarks, that means that
one gets one section per group one is a member of.

Individual members are never hardcoded into the objects themselves,
(i.e, "Lennie may read the document, Daniel may read the document,
Locke may read the document", as it was in v4), but they have rights as group
members ("when somebody attemps to read this locked document, check if
there is a group with reading rights, then check if this somebody is
member of that group right now"). This allows to set information ONE
place alone; no need to delete or remove the person in question
manually from the Co-owner box, forum reader box etc.

Groups can contain one single person, many persons, one subgroup, many
subgroups, or any combination. A group can be empty.

A group is a web object, i.e., you can drop it and take it and move it.
Its _html verb displays the members, in cascading fashion. Deleting a
group does not delete its members, though I want to make that an
optional choice later.

Groups are cascading. If you have

Students 2005 (main group)
English (sub group)
Spanish (sub group)
French (sub group)

and send a mail to "English", all "English" members will receive it. If
you send the mail to "Students 2005", all members in both "English",
"Spanish" and "French" will get this mail. Cascading has no limits,
i.e., you might have any level of nesting/depth you want.

This works in ALL places: forum access, read/write acces to objects,
you name it.

Groups are not restricted to teachers. Everybody can make and manage
groups.

Teachers (like wizards) may browse all players in the Admin Module and
display groups at a time ('show me all "Students 2004"'). The table
shows number, name, real name, first login, last logout and an edit
link. This table is sortable by every column! Teachers may edit some
properties, like email address, free quota, etc., while wizards have
access to change everything from there. Take a look for yourself, it's
all there. Table rows (=players) can be checked, and batch commands can
be performed (not online yet, sorry): - delete these players, - send
these players a mail, - change group membership for these players, -
etc.

03:28:14

Lennie: « Let's look at one cool aspect now. »

03:28:59

Samantha: « the shot in the head recorder wasn't cool enough? »

03:29:03

Lennie: « Click the MAIL button and then click into the Forum mail list. Then try sending a message inside this Forum. It is the new threaded mail that Daniel has created. »

03:30:30

Lennie: « I hope you all can get into the Forum named Forum inside the MAIL. Try sending a message. »

03:31:14

Samantha: « no forums for me »

03:31:14

Teacher_5: « say Am getting you are not subscribed to any forums »

03:31:30

Teacher_2: « no forums for me either. »

03:31:40

Kevin_Moberly: « I had to subscribe to the forum using the subscribe option »

03:31:54

Lennie: « Ugg. I thought I had all Teachers subscribed to that group. (Marde) »

03:32:19

Lennie: « Well, go ahead and see if you can subscribe. »

03:32:56

Teacher_7 leaves for Snowden

03:33:05

Teacher_2: « I only see Bugs or Presentation »

03:33:16

Teacher_7 arrives from Snowden

03:33:20

Teacher_5: « Meeee tooo »

03:33:36

Lennie: « I apologize for the flub up. »

03:33:44

Teacher_9: « I just posted on "Presentation". Works. »

03:33:45

Kevin_Moberly: « I think it is presentation? »

03:33:58

Kevin_Moberly: « I hope it is anyways because I posted to it! »

03:34:07

Lennie: « I really wanted you to see how the Mail has a threaded discussion board to it now. It is really nice! »

03:34:24

Builder_9: « look »

03:34:46

Teacher_9: « to kev I answered you. »

03:34:54

Teacher_9 [à Kevin_Moberly]: I answered you.

03:35:22

Lennie: « I hate to run us long and I really haven't showed you all very much. »

03:35:35

Teacher_2: « that is cool, I suspect many people would use that rather than the chat screen »

03:35:35

Lennie: « Do you have any questions before we close? »

03:35:54

Kevin_Moberly: « I like the threaded discussions »

03:36:04

Samantha: « It will be interesting to see how this develops »

03:36:05

Lennie: « They are really nice »

03:36:06

Builder_9: « this has been great! I nice preview of some great new features! »

03:36:11

Daniel [à Lennie]: Should we look at the chat log in the recorder?

03:36:11

Kevin_Moberly: « does this support verb programming? »

03:36:13

Samantha: « this is good »

03:36:20

Teacher_5: « I would like to invite every one to take a peek at what we have up.. »

03:36:21

Samantha loves verbs

03:36:26

Teacher_2: « I noticed a problem with Firefox but not with IE is that being looked at? »

03:36:30

Samantha . o O ( any furniture yet? )

03:36:31

Lennie [à Kevin_Moberly]: It does indeed.

03:36:48

Samantha . o O ( must have furniture )

03:36:49

Teacher_5: « http://www.edenwatch.org:7000 »

03:37:18

Teacher_7 [à Lennie]: could you expand a bit on the 3 models (MOO, Web and Windows) ?

03:37:19

Soudain, Builder_9 s'en va.

03:37:54

Teacher_5: « Lennie, It brings back old memories to meet with everyone. »

03:38:18

Lennie: « I'm having trouble opening edenwatch... »

03:38:34

Teacher_9: « me too »

03:38:49

Lennie: « This has been great. Feel free to stick around with more questions, otherwise THANKS for coming! »

03:39:08

Kevin_Moberly: « thanks for hosting the presentation! »

03:39:12

Lennie: « Contact me at Lirvin@accd.edu if you have any other followup questions or want more info on the Consortium. »

03:39:14

Teacher_9: « Will the passwords continue to work? »

03:40:17

Lennie looks at Daniel. Can we keep the MOO open for visitors for a few days?

03:40:21

Samantha aaplauds Lennie

03:40:28

Daniel: « Of course »

03:40:30

Samantha . o O ( applauds even )

03:40:43

Kevin_Moberly applauds

03:40:43

Daniel: « but they should have their own characters... »

03:40:45

Lennie: « Thanks to Samantha for being the host at ProNounMOO »

03:40:51

Teacher_2 leaves for Snowden

03:41:10

Teacher_2 arrives from Snowden

03:41:12

Samantha [à Lennie]: I would love to play around a bit more

03:41:36

Teacher_5: « As do I...don't know why...will reboot. We are using TZO with a dynamic IP...worked an hour ago so we shall see. anyway it mostly works and there is a e-mail address on the login and any comments will be appreciated. »

03:41:45

Lennie: « I think the MOO isn't really ready yet for playing because Daniel is still actively working on it. »

03:42:09

Teacher_5: « Thanks again, Lennie »

03:42:21

Lennie: « Thanks for coming! »

03:42:37

Lennie [à Teacher7]: I still remember your question.

03:42:52

Teacher_7: « Thanks for the presenation »

03:42:56

Samantha must go pick up dinner!

03:43:04

Teacher_5: « Didn't get an answer about VOU however and will be glad to discuss the intensity of that MOO community which really set some benchmarks for its time. »

03:43:10

Samantha: « thanks again Lennie and thanks to everyone for coming!! »

03:43:11

Kevin_Moberly [à Lennie]: or daniel where is the source-code for the client posted?

03:43:31

Teacher_2: « Thanks Lennie, I look forward to seeing the useability report. »

03:43:35

Samantha waves goodnight to all.

03:43:40

Kevin_Moberly waves

03:43:50

Teacher_2 waves at Samantha

03:44:19

Lennie: « So long everyone. Good night »

03:44:20

Teacher 9 (plus connecté) a disparu.

03:44:30

Soudain, Teacher_2 s'en va.

03:44:42

Lennie: « Hold on on the source code address. One minute. »

03:45:15

Lennie shares a URL. (http://lingua.utdallas.edu/encore/)

03:45:21

Soudain, Kevin_Moberly s'en va.

03:45:54

>> Lennie turns off the recorder. The little red light stops flashing, indicationg that the recorder doesn't tape the conversation in this room any more. <<

*************************************************

Continuation of transcript from ProNoun MOO

Kevin Jepson says, "what does /"Code corrupted. Insert fresh copy/" mean?"
Lennie says, "I think we can all be teachers so you can see the teacher feature."
Samantha waits
Kevin Moberly would like a user name
Claire Lauer waits to be assigned a name
Lennie [to Kevin]: What are you referring to?
Lennie [to Claire]: How about you be teacher_1
Claire Lauer says, "thank you!"
Lennie [to Kevin]: you take teacher_2
Kevin Moberly [to Lennie]: thanks
Lennie says, "Olin you take teacher_3"
Olin Bjork [to Lennie]: okay
Lennie says, "Clancy you take Teacher_4"
Kevin Jepson says, "On your last slide that message was at the bottom..."
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Ack! How do I enable Java in Firefox?"
Lennie says, "Bill You take Teacher 5"
Bill Rowland smiles
Lennie says, "Susan You take Teacher 6"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I'm getting "Sorry, you need to enable Java first.""
Lennie [to Clancy]: Hmm... I'm not sure
Lennie says, "Try going into the Options inside the browser"
Samantha [to Clancy]: Under Preferences
Lennie says, "First guest go for Teacher 7"
Michael [to Lennie]: thanks
Lennie says, "Samantha How about you be teacher_8"
Lennie says, "Did I get everyone?"
Samantha says, "woohoo! Thanks"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I went to Preferences, and Java *is* enabled..."
Samantha [to clancy]: it might be called web features or some such thing
Samantha [to clancy]: hmmmm
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Yeah, it was web features. "
Kevin Jepson says, "thanks got in first try!"
Lennie [to Clancy]: Any luck
Bill Rowland says, "Are we coming back here if we fail to connect?"
Samantha [to clancy]: try safari
Pencil_Guest [to Clancy Ratliff_Guest]: That must be the feared javaEnabled bug in MAC...
Claire Lauer says, "I keep logging on then getting booted"
Lennie [to Pencil_Guest]: You be teacher_9
Pencil_Guest says, "Can I have a user too?"
Claire Lauer says, "using mozilla. I'll try IE"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Okay, I think I might be in. I just ignored the Java thing."
Pencil_Guest says, "Thanks"
Claire Lauer says, "hmmm...now it says that the name I entered is invalid"
Claire Lauer says, "can I have another one?"
Lennie [to Claire]: It is case sensitive..
Lennie says, "Teacher_1 frodo"
Claire Lauer says, "yep, I know. I logged on several times in Mozilla successfully, but now even it says my name is invalid"
Claire Lauer says, "I'll try again"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I'm in the Parlour, but I'm not seeing any chat yet."
Olin Bjork [to Lennie]: I am in but I don't see the icons of anyone else, nor any text
Claire Lauer says, "hmmm...I definitely need a new name"
Olin Bjork says, "Oh, now I see, names are only in the Who browser"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "According to the Who browser, I'm not logged in :("
Olin Bjork [to clancy]: neither am I
Susan says, "I am also stuck getting the html chat frame to load"
Kevin Jepson says, "My cpu went to 100% and that session is now dead."
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I like what I can see of enCore"
Kevin Jepson says, "hmmm, I logged out and back in , the Firefox session went to 100% and I'm stuck. I'm going to try IE"
Susan is logging in again
Olin Bjork says, "Is anyone still here? My chat applet won't load in any browser of platform I have tried"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I'm still here but about to sign off."
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I have a lot of work to do tonight before I go to bed. :-("
Olin Bjork [to Clancy]: so do I
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Plus, uh, "Lost" is coming on in a little while..."
Olin Bjork [to Clancy]: I feel lost right now
Clancy Ratliff_Guest shuffles feed
Clancy Ratliff_Guest shuffles feet
Susan is here
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "The ProNounMOO and the enCore MOO interfaces look similar"
Susan says, "from what I saw of the info abotu the features, it looks a like like what java chat uses in webboard "
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "Or were we on enCore all along?"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "I've learned a good bit from this experience. I'm going to write a substantial comment at Kairosnews when Lennie posts this transcript"
Susan says, "both moos are enCore, but the second one has an option different set of chat commands and interface"
Olin Bjork says, "I liked what I saw, but it seems very raw"
Clancy Ratliff_Guest says, "This has given me some ideas about the value of MOOs"
Kevin Jepson says, "IE worked fine but Firefox had some big issues, anybody else notice that?"
Olin Bjork [to Kevin]: were you on Mac or PC?
Susan says, "I didn;t have the plug in for firefox, so I only tried IE"
Kevin Jepson says, "I'm on a laptop with XP pro"
Olin Bjork says, "Talk to you guys later"
You hear a quiet popping sound; Olin Bjork has disconnected.
You hear a quiet popping sound; Clancy Ratliff_Guest has disconnected.
You hear a quiet popping sound; Lennie has disconnected.
Two_Guest_Guest has connected.
Two_Guest_Guest waves.
Two_Guest_Guest leaves for Electronic Publication Room
You hear a quiet popping sound; Claire Lauer has disconnected.
Two_Guest_Guest comes home.
Two_Guest_Guest leaves for Showcase Gallery
You hear a quiet popping sound; Kevin Moberly has disconnected.
Two Guest Guest arrives.
Two_Guest_Guest waves.
CPU_Guest has connected.
Two_Guest_Guest waves at CPU_Guest.
Samantha (asleep) have disconnected.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "How's it going?"
CPU_Guest waves to too guest
CPU_Guest says, "good. "
Two_Guest_Guest says, "I missed the discussion tonight"
CPU_Guest says, "is this lennie's presentation?"
CPU_Guest says, "too late?"
Two_Guest_Guest says, "Well, that was supposed to start at 7"
Two_Guest_Guest says, "I just got here a second ago"
Two_Guest_Guest says, "I'm Rob from Grand Valley State University"
CPU_Guest says, "shoot. I couldn't remember what time it was, with the different zones"
Susan says, "a lot of people went to a different moo to look at a new chat feature http://lingo.uib.no:9002/"
Kevin Jepson says, "Unfortunately it was 7:00 Central time."
CPU_Guest says, "I'm bradley from spokane falls"
Two_Guest_Guest nods.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "I'm going to check out that chat feature in another window here"
CPU_Guest says, "I'm gonna check out that other MOO and hopefully others are there. See ya"
CPU_Guest waves goodbye
You hear a quiet popping sound; CPU_Guest has disconnected.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "no guest access?"
Two_Guest_Guest hmms.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "guess not"
Susan says, "there might be. though he gave us some log on names to use. Is anyone that is here also there?"
The housekeeper arrives to cart Samantha off to bed.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "Yeah, can't get in as guest"
Two_Guest_Guest says, "So this is the Purdue MOO"
You hear a quiet popping sound; Pencil_Guest has disconnected.
Two_Guest_Guest sighs.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "BRB"
You hear a quiet popping sound; Kevin Jepson has disconnected.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "Still here, Chalk?"
Two_Guest_Guest hmms.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "missed my chance"
Susan says, "in and out"
Two_Guest_Guest says, "no prob"
Two_Guest_Guest says, "looks like we can't get in the other MOO"
Susan says, "let me try to log in to the new moo and see if anyone else is there. "
Two_Guest_Guest says, "they are still there"
GreenEggs_Guest has connected.
You hear a quiet popping sound; GreenEggs_Guest has disconnected.
Two_Guest_Guest leaves for South Elevator
Two_Guest_Guest comes home.
Susan says, "anyone still here"
Two_Guest_Guest nods.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "no luck?"
Two_Guest_Guest says, "hello?"
You hear a quiet popping sound; Bill Rowland has disconnected.
Two_Guest_Guest says, "hmm"
Two_Guest_Guest leaves for Resource Room
Two_Guest_Guest leaves for South hall
Two_Guest_Guest comes home.
You hear a quiet popping sound; Two_Guest_Guest has disconnected.
You hear a quiet popping sound; Michael has disconnected.
You hear a quiet popping sound; Susan has disconnected.
Samantha appears with the assistance of theoretical smoke and mirrors.

-- End log: Wednesday, June 8, 2005 10:28:32 pm ProNoun time --